Curse

Phaedrus · May 16, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramus

Quite true, the default for lower monsters should be 1 to 5xp. Its pretty ridiculous that you do not get it, I almost get slaughtered all the time at yaks bend fighting those stone summit guys and I am level 17. No xp from them at all.

This goes to the replies after you as well...you can get exp from mobs quite far below you in level. You have to keep in mind you're splitting it with 4/6/8 other people. If you run stone summit guys with a small group, you'll all get exp.

I like the current system because it penalizes people for powerlevelling and dragging. I like to help friends through back missions, and I'm okay with getting maybe 25-500 exp a mission. I'm also okay with getting weak drops, low gold, and items I can't use because they're meant for lower levels. I don't think you should be rewarded for running something that's below you...if you run quests 5-10 levels below your own, you already get the advantage of higher attributes/hp and better armor. You shouldn't be rewarded for waiting to twink it out.

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Stur · May 16, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

A small XP reward would be good. Afterall. If you need 10.000 XP to advance a level, you're not going to get it soon from slaughtering 5 XP monsters.

Thats 2000 monsters, thats not very meny monsters needed to level for people like me who are use to having to kill tens of thousends the level in Lineage 2

If they did that I'd just grind to 20th outside Serinity Temple, then explore the rest of the world

EnDinG · May 16, 2005, 04:38 PM // 16:38

This has been brought up before and apparently people don't search or just love milking topics to death.

Heres a nice little thought for your head guys, picture this:

Your level 16 in some n00b area. You decide to run along and collect about 20 monsters. You turn around, start to float, and rain fire down on them. They are dead in about 10 seconds, you gain 20 XP (1 per kill) and your bags are full since enemies tend to drop items, that you take back to the city sell for probley 20 gold and repeat.

Now how about this:

You walk out of the town, you see a couple of enemies (or a few more), you attack them with a couple of henchmen. All 3-5 drop dead quickly, you gain about 30-40 XP, about 20 gold, and 3 items that will sell for at least 15 each.

Now either someone has no life if they figure its worth spending time killing and farming little level 0's, or they are lacking skill to continue in the game and figure theres no point in trying to kill things around their own level.

The game is set up perfect right now. There should be no changes made like the ones suggested.

Why do things attack you? Um, yea well hi, I'm in the middle of a war against the Charr, they hate humans. So naturally they don't care about your level and just charge you. Example? How about in the PvP areas? You have no idea what the enemies are, just that they are there and fighting. For all you know they are level 2.

Just like the monsters, they don't care nor know what level you are. Animals have no brains, just their own land to protect, you invade, they kill.

They won't ever let you gain 0 XP. If that was possible, we would see a TON of level 19's trying to hit 20 by killing a hundred monsters in about 2 minutes. Those who sell things on EBay would make tons of money for selling characters maxed out with a ton of skills and whatnot.

Oh, and by the way, welcome to those who created Diablo and Diablo 2. I'm positive these people know what they are doing since that game is still played to this day.

Rahl · May 16, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

What ticks me is that on the level 28 monsters I rarely get more than 18XP a kill :/

Chewbacca The Hutt · May 16, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

i dont really want xp from just 1 low lvl guy, but from big mobs of low lvl guys were they could actualy kill you.

Stur · May 16, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Now either someone has no life if they figure its worth spending time killing and farming little level 0's, or they are lacking skill to continue in the game and figure theres no point in trying to kill things around their own level.

Wow someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed, while we agree that there should be no xp for low level mobs, to make those statements is not constructive and is really kinda mean. I for one am a nut for doing every quest and if you do every single quest in an area(well at least the lower level areas) you will quickly find yourself wading though tons of 0xp mobs to get them done. This is done for a reason, but just because someone doesn't agree doesn't mean you need to make broad personal attacks like that

Phaedrus · May 16, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahl

What ticks me is that on the level 28 monsters I rarely get more than 18XP a kill :/

Take a group of six instead of a group of eight.

If you want higher exp rewards, you need to risk something. If not, run the Underworld quests ad infinitum.

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Rizzen Khalazar · May 16, 2005, 05:46 PM // 17:46

If the mobs dont give you exp, then they should not aggro you either. This is how it needs to be.

Xavier · May 17, 2005, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raccoon_TOF

I think the issue is not that low level monsters should still give xp, but rather that the monster "levels" are highly imbalanced when compared to their lethality vs players of equal level, especially in numbers. I mean really, a level 4 monster that can singlehandedly drop the health of a level 10 character in half, and that nearly always spawns in packs...that should NOT be classed as a "level 4" mob. Leaving the 0 xp for monsters drastically under your level would not be a problem, if the correlation between monster "level" and monster "lethality" were more appropriate.

(And yes, I know that their "lethality" is in part influenced by their level, with damage calculations and the like, what I am proposing is altering the "base" stats that are modified per level, along with changing the levels...not just populating old ascalon with a swarm of level 10 devourers...)

This is an excellent post. It definitely seems as if the game currently only takes into account the level differential between player and monster. Many monster groups do player "stronger" than their listed level, especially because of the skills they possess. The game needs a way to gage player/group vunerability(i.e. likelyhood of party death) based on the attributes, skill sets, and numbers of the attacking mob. Especially the numbers aspect. Any of us that use the henchmen know that their lack of strategic acumen often turns an even fight into a 2 or 3 to 1 disadvantage.

If I'm at Lvl 14 and my henchmen are at 10, winning a battle 6 on 15 vs a level 8 mob should not net 0XP.

Phaedrus · May 17, 2005, 01:29 AM // 01:29

So people should be rewarded for running through a zone to chain aggros, then dropping them with an aoe? This seems like a really good way to abuse a lot of smiting prayers and traps for easier exp.

Currently, if you do this and you aren't alone, you'll probably get 0 exp. What people are proposing is that you get exp if there's a group of enemies...so you could effectively let your henchies form a wall while you drop meteors on a host of Grawl or snow ettins or whatever, knowing they won't survive that one attack.

I agree with the premise the game designers came up with: if you're in a group and fighting something much lower-level than you, they should stand no chance...even if they're annoying and they hurt. Mergoyles are annoying as shit, but there's no reason you'd lose to a massive group of them...even if you had all henchmen.

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Sjoerd · May 17, 2005, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizzen Khalazar

If the mobs dont give you exp, then they should not aggro you either. This is how it needs to be.

That is probably the best solution. Sure, the monsters might not care about your level - but it's bloody hell annoying if you want to get anywhere and it takes hours longer than it should just because you need to hack and slash your way through tons of critters for which you don't get any gain.

Sjoerd · May 17, 2005, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaedrus

even if they're annoying and they hurt. Mergoyles are annoying as shit, but there's no reason you'd lose to a massive group of them...even if you had all henchmen.

True. The point of a game however is to have fun, not to be annoyed by little, pointless pesks.

Phaedrus · May 17, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjoerd

True. The point of a game however is to have fun, not to be annoyed by little, pointless pesks.

The argument can be made you're not playing the game in the right context if you find yourself frequently running against mobs whose level is far beneath you. :P

The solution to make mobs not aggro when they give no exp is sort of silly. It's so abusable beyond belief...you could explore 90% of the world with no trouble if this were the case. You could stockpile quests to do later when you could be sure nothing would attack you. I'd be willing to humor the idea if anyone offered a logical suggestion as to how to prevent abuse of such a system.

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Vangor · May 17, 2005, 05:08 PM // 17:08

First, no minimum experience for these, it basically says, hey, someone go do it. Zero experience says that you were supposed to move along a while ago. I've seen people level 12 in Ascalon still, I don't think I could've stood sitting around there like that. The problem that is happening is there is often too much possibility to be doing so even with a bit more experience, people aren't moving fast enough by killing efficiently, and we have a huge lack of people in certain missions.

As well, to sort of solve this problem, make the groups recieve difficulty ratings with experience per, these would be based off of the current linking, and would be similar to DaoC's excellent system of getting camp and group bonuses, granted camps aren't exactly viable here, though perhaps specific areas where they may be harder to fight. Anyway, if you brought back less than four purples many times for your group of eight, you weren't pulling enough, you could almost double your experience gain by bringing proper amounts in. This would not necessarily be the same, but would instead mean that the one monster solo who is worth 8 experience, is now worth say 10 because it is in a group of five, all of them are worth this. Include a larger creature, all of them are now at 13, an extra 2 for the power of the monster and 1 more for the increased size.

Still would be very limited on fighting lower level monsters, but could help people really try for those bigger ones when more impressive monsters mean higher experience, in larger numbers means even more, and because they are stronger and in numbers, have it calculate even more, risk for reward.

kaya · May 17, 2005, 05:50 PM // 17:50

I think of it this way:

Experience = knowledge, skill, practice, understanding ect.
Just like a 5 year old trying to learn what 2 + 2 is, he need to practice to get the knowledge and this is all summed up in one word – Experience. Well, say for example this little boy masters this little math problem, meaning he’s practiced and learned it to the best that it can be learned. Do you think the next time he does this problem he’s going to be more learned? Nope. He already knows it. Just like this game, you kill a Gargoyle enough your going to know exactly how to do it every time you come across one. So by then you’ve mastered it! How can you expect experience from something you mastered? GW has done a great job implementing this into the game. They don’t know the abilities of every single player, but I feel they hit middle grounds.

Dreamsmith · May 17, 2005, 07:36 PM // 19:36

It'll never happen, and here's why:

1 XP for a monster that currently gives 0 XP provides no significant benefit to a normal gamer. Not no benefit at all, true, but the benefit is so insignificant it might as well be 0.

1 XP for a monster that currently gives 0 XP is a massive benefit for bots, with their infinite patience and ability to be going while people are sleeping, working, eating, going to the movies, etc.

So, it doesn't help legit gamers hardly at all, but it helps cheaters immensely. Trust me, any feature that works that way ain't gonna see the light of day.

Epinephrine · May 17, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stur

Thats 2000 monsters, thats not very meny monsters needed to level for people like me who are use to having to kill tens of thousends the level in Lineage 2

If they did that I'd just grind to 20th outside Serinity Temple, then explore the rest of the world

And I'd laugh like hell....

nechronius · May 17, 2005, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Keep low level monsters at 0 xp when the level difference is too great. Also make them stop mobbing or significantly reduce their chance of mobbing with exceptions, like the Charr for example, who are supposed to be this tough, belligerent race of creatures. Realism doesn't even play into this scenario as it's a fantasy game.

BahamutKaiser · May 17, 2005, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Monsters still drop loot whether or not you are too high to gain EXP, you may not be looking for that loot, but it is there and addings exp to monsters that you can loot and beat without breaking a sweat would be too easy.

The only exception I see is that nearly all monsters gain up in the later part of the game. Nearly any class can take on an enemy 3 lvls higher then him, mono e mono, but multiple monsters, even below your EXP range, can still contend with you, and given enough of them, will kill you. If they gave anything, EXP should accumilate depending on how many monsters your fighting at once, so that if your fighting several lower lvl monsters you will gain EXP equivalent to the monsters lvl + the number of other monsters attacking your party at the time (1 lvl), decreasing as the amount of monsters are felled. This compensates for the amount of power that a group of monsters have, most will understand that 4 lvl 5 monsters are more powerful then 1 lvl 10 monster.

Christ67 · May 18, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

NO all of you saying 0 xp is right are wrong. If my char kills 8000 crappy lvl 3 monsters in a 5 hour druge just trying to get to the next point on the map that is worth xp. 2,3,4,5,6 hours of hacking and slashing through the same mindless crap. (well, if you are a higher level and they are easy to kill you haven't learned anything no xp) Bull, If i work my mindless job doing the same repetitive crap I still get paid. If you think otherwise, come work for me. I've got just the job for you I'll collect your pay and you can work til you learn something. {learning yet? thought so} XP is XP be it 1 or 500 you gotta be earning something. If no one paid you for the game would you still try to develop it? some suggestions other than XP 1. Dev's Create a save spot for this game. Jesus it sucks running around for hours just to be killed and restart with a penalty. restarting all the way from the beginning. 2. Solo missions, hey there is an idea, missions that a solo player could survive without henchmen or other players. 3. A non-aggro spell like stealth that allows you to slip by unnoticed unless you attack. (pve only that would be so abused pvp) just a few seconds with a use delay lets say last for 5 secs with a 10 second delay til you could use it again. 4. Eleminate the ranger pet death penalty 8 seconds of mourning for the loss of a pet is rather extreme given the same bunch of monsters are also beating the crap outta you while you just sit there for 8 secs unable to do anything, even heal yourself. 5. drops are a joke, an absolute joke. a seriously unfunny joke. a humorless heart attack unfunny joke. really sad unfortunate joke {are you getting it} infant death unfunny joke resale value 1 unfunny. fight for two hours kill a boss get a flame artifact (+1 energy while you are on fire during dinner). 6. drops (need i say it again) 7. stop spamming me about the Hall of Heros or I will notify the game officials When I want to hear about the farting contest in the Hall of Heros I'll ask ok Stop spamming it. Really stop. It is annoying and useless to my char. 8. What is up with the lack of info on quest and item use? example: (Storm Artifact Energy +5) where? when? how? Do I equip it on my face during a charr invasion? shove it in my belt during cloudy weather? What is this for? Example: (frontier gate exit to pokmark plains) ok where is this frontier gate Must be in Ascalon since I got quest there Hmmmmm... nope cant find it on the map or in town must be in the hall of heros I keep being spammed about (Stop spamming me, NOW!) 9. Dye sells for 240 from the game vendor. Value is 1. Ok I think there is a law about markup value. Pretty sure you can't sell for 240% markup. 10. Well, vendors what can I say they all sell the same stuff, no really, the exact same stuff regardless if you just sold them 250 shells 33 bones and 5 storm artifacts along with assorted weapons they only sell the same 6-7 items.